In Ross’s seminar, Codependents and Emotional Manipulators: Understanding the Attraction, he shares his ideas and his essay about the …
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The Doomed Relationship. The Codependent / Narcissist Relationship Dance. Codependency Narcissism
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No people do codependent behavior because the manipulator knows what to say to put hooks of guilt or abandonment or fill in the blank of possible tricks an abusive personality uses to hook a person with conscience whether we call the victim co-dependent or just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I keep reading and I've come to the conclusion that the narc and codependent are cut from the same cloth. Since codependents and narcs are attracted to eachother, it seems very possible that many of us were raised and wounded by both. Here is the quesrion, under which conditions does a person's narcissism manifest itself, and their codependent lay dorment? As well, under which conditions does a person's codependency manifest itself, and their narcisism lay dorment? Keep up the good work.
Great lecture. Very informative.
You are a great teacher – thank you for your videos! So appreciated!
The dance is a helpful metaphor, since I have literally started dance classes and am looking for a new relationship partner. Starting a new relationship we often 'click' with a familiar partner. Another metaphor is a movie where both partners have rehearsed the script, they know their role in the drama; within a few minutes of meeting someone you have already seen the ''trailer'' you know the plot, the main themes and can anticipate the ending.
so if the devil asks to dance you better say "NEVER!" as a dance with the devil can go on forever.
This was really eye opening. It makes me so sad because I don't want to be like this to my partner. I never realized I was. I realize now it is due to a lot of unresolved childhood trauma. Are relationships like this salvageable?
Dear Ross, Is it an absolute that a codependent must have had a narcissistic parent?
I have been in this relationship for 16 years!! Omg I just figured out this is my situation and Im so embarrassed because I cant seem to end it and I dont even feel like I can if I wanted to.
To feel needed is what the narc brings to the table. Why does the codependent need to be needed? If it is from childhood, maybe the only time the parents showed interest was when the child was needed. They learned if they are needed they get attention and they don't leave and then the child is not alone. My dad ran a few different businesses when I was growing up. I started working for him when I was 15 A garage, selling cars and then a restaurant. I dropped out of school to help him with his restaurant. It wasn't because it was fun, but it was because if I helped I was able to spend time with him. I existed. A learned stimulus and reward. Give what is needed and get attention = happiness. The brain was trained that happiness comes from others. And when deprived of something, it can turn you into an addict, craving it. And the dance begins over and over and over again.
I am am marry and I don't dance anymore. I just to be heck of a dancer but when I go out and dance with him i follow the tunes of the music he always say .. "let me lead" let me lead" One day a random guy told my husband .. DUDE the dance is to show up your lady not you… Then NOW he said that he HATES DANCING so we never go to dance specially after he confess that he hates it it is not fun but always was uncomfortable. BUT that is only ONE example of what I am going true.. I sometimes started defending myself and also start been aggressive please. Please email me with information where to go .. I currently have a therapist who is asking me to be forgivable to be Gods daughter BUT he is not asking my husband to change or recognize that certain things that he does are evil for the contrary he said that what-happened today doesn't it is in the pass when pardon my ignorance is not the pass what has to heel first and move on or we just have to forget everything like it was a dream? every two weeks when I go to counseling I feel like I have to defend myself from to MACHO men. I need someone who can see what is going on and help us if possible or help me to go away from what I am going true. God bless you for posting this videos I am glad that I am not and ignorant codependent now .. I need help.
AW! life made me very strong BUT i am just finding out that I am co-dependent. Please help what do I do?
I've just started to learn about narcissist I've been married for 28 years now to one and I also came from a very abusive and very dysfunctional family we have two adult children and I'm very sad about all of it I have a question for you it has been said that I'm addicted to my narcissist well can you tell me is it natural for a person like me to become an alcoholic from living like this for so many years too afraid to leave or change. He blames everything on me. P.S. thank you for your insight it's really appreciated
For frig's sake, I have realised that I'm a co-dependent. I'm crying as I write this, because I never knew why I was attracted to horrible people, and why my life was so bad. I thought I was a good person, and I am, but I didn't know why it happened.
I thank you, Ross.
Always enlightening. Thanks.
I was absolutely blown away when I watched your teaching on the Dysfunctional relationship dance. A few years ago I had a God experience; He took my hands and said "Lets Dance". I started to call this my "waltz with God" of which I shared in a church about a year later. Although still at that point I did not realise I was married to a Covert Narcissist or even knew such a thing existed. All I knew is I was losing my identity and something was seriously wrong, and I blamed myself. But as time passed and I waltzed with God I started to question a lot of things. As a result the cruelty and abuse intensified – and my world & sanity came cashing down. Leaving me having a number of minor strokes, dependent on anti-depressants and later my home taken from me and my children – just to say the least. Almost 4 years later, with the support of some family and friends, I am now in the last stages of our divorce. Yet sometimes still find myself doubting, even questioning myself, so I search the internet for answers. Yesterday I came across your teachings on "Codependency and best of all your use of the metaphor "dance" of which gripped my heart with such truth and for the first time the penny dropped, I am a recovering codependent! Thank you!
Yay for metaphors!
How do you recover your ability to firstly know what you feel, then why you feel it, then to trust your assessment when it comes under fire?
I spent years alone trying to break the cycle of abuse and to give my child time with me rather than bringing a new person into our life; I was very cautious! However, I made a tragic mistake, one that ultimately cost me everything I had gained. I met a person who presented himself to be very successful; I bought it! He was not; he was abusive, and the abuse started immediately after I married him. I knew I had made a tragic mistake (same old thing) and repeatedly tried to leave. That is when he went from his often charming self to being very dangerous and willing to do anything to prevent me from leaving.
They can be very friendly, in fact over-friendly; a warning sign, but if you say "no" or that "won't work for me" or you "try to leave", expect hell on earth; that is what it will be. Now, I am back, again, trying to figure out what to do, after years with a psychopathic narcissistic mother. It was the last thing I needed, and it did cost me everything I ever was. Now, I want to come back way better than the person I was before; more skilled at recognizing how to prevent another crisis, although so many years have passed that now I am a senior. Big time lesson! It is never too late!
In watching this video, I could see my parents' relationship. My mother was a narcissist and my father was a severe co-dependent. Both of my parents had learning disabilities but my mother was more intelligent than my father. My mother was a high school graduate and worked as an office clerk. She lacked the self esteem to try college courses and honestly, I don't think that she would have had success in college. She never made more than minimum wage but she exaggerated her talents to the point of making people believe that her position was of greater importance than what it was (to which I say, prove it, show me the money"). My father dropped out of high school, had very low self-esteem and for most of his life worked sweeping and mopping floors because he didn't have the cognitive ability to understand important things like filing out paperwork and following written instructions. Honestly, his biggest failure was that he didn't try. He literally trapped himself with a narcissist that made his life miserable and as a result, there was a lot of domestic violence. In the end, living over forty years with a narcissist ended in tragedy for my father; he was hit by a commercial vehicle in 2005 and died of his injuries three months later. This happened because he got into an argument with my NM in the morning and stormed out of the house and ended up getting hit by the commercial vehicle. In any event, listening to your video helped me identify the problem with my parents which is very therapeutic for me. When you're dealing with a covert narcissist and a co-dependent home life is hell.
Anyway, thanks again.
Ross, your videos have literally DRAGGED me out from under my rock. After being in a Codependant/Narcissistic Abusive 14 year relationship- I feel a LITTLE hope. I am (now) a single mom of 3 and I feel like I will never move on from this "dream" I had for my future with this man, the father of my kids. I have been experiencing the Devaluation, Discard, Blame, Triangulation and MAJOR WITHDRAWEL still. I am experiencing physical and emotional pain. I have had NO HOPE for as long as we have been separated. But, I feel a LITTLE HOPE now, and for me that is HUGE. I am ordering your book TONITE.
Ross, I would like to email you if possible. I would like to ask some advice about the topic in this video. I am reading your book the Human Magnet Syndrome.
Thanks,
Hi Ross, I want to marry you and have lots of your babies! I realise your married and you now reckon your living the non-codependent dream but you never know you might of worked it out wrong and have to bin her off as another narc. Then the stage is set for me and you to run off into the sunset! ♥
What causes people to be narcissistic, or co-dependent? Child Abuse? Violent physical trauma experienced repeatedly in childhood can cause people to lose all capacity for empathy, or to become permanent victims. What else can cause these personality disorders? Are they genetic?
RT CoDA Omaha: Therapist Ross Rosenberg on the codpendent/narcissist paradigm. Just got his book "The Human Magnet Syndrome."http://buff.ly/1oMTPgd …
I would like to see some videos about what a normal relationship looks like, what does a happy relationship feel like, how is it to complain to someone who actually cares about you? Does someone who hurts your feelings, but thinks they're kidding just have a different sense of humor or will they abuse anyone they end up with? Am I too sensitive?
Been in this rut before and to those who haven't imagine being in a endless lonely hell of a nightmare. People tend to emotionally feed off each other when the need or opportunity is there. Good help doesn't come easy and is almost never convenient so most who have these problems get worse and worse.
Thank you for this video. I'm co-dependent(and working on progress) and almost a year ago stopped my first ever encounter/relationship with a narcissist. It has literally been one of the most difficult things I've ever done. I didn't realize that I had put my entire self into it and almost ended up in the psych ward. It's a scary thing to not feel in control of my emotions. It's 10x harder when people around you keep pushing you to "get over it" as if it were any typical dating/breakup scenario. It still hurts, but ..no pain, no gain right?!
Is there any way you can be both.
How do I get a copy of your book?
"No one can make you feel inferior without your permission." ~Eleanor Roosevelt
That is such a painful statement. And reality. Both sides are out of balance. I agree. But three people in the dance does not work either. Please consider the quote above. Do you hear/feel kindness in her words? We have to keep it balanced. It feels impossible. I don't try to do it alone. God helps me. I'm in a field where I come between two parties and become the new target. It was an unexpected side effect because I am focused on the children. It feels like being dragged behind a horse. But for the sake of a child. Searching for communication skills, saw the video title & clicked hoping for usable info/feedback. It would have been avoided, especially on a day like today. I hope I was not unkind, but I do stand firmly behind what I have said. Please consider deleting this video. If one little push is all that is left, do you want it to be yours? Thank you for allowing feedback.
Co-dependency is a made up word. Professionals are not in agreement about it. It's a tool to get Someone to make an appointment because narcissism does not seek help often enough. People have to eat, and hey, targets are already willing & unaware participants of the abuse. But how is that not the same as the red flag statements abuser say? They give a warning, but if the target does not realize it, the game is on. And who is to blame? The target? That is chicken headed barn yard mentality. Even if you pulled it out at the end of the video… too little, too late, all wrong. Please consider what I am saying. Please research the topic again, more deeply. Or leave it alone. I will plead for the sake of all, including you.
Ok, I had to stop the video. Are you serious?! Blaming the target of abuse is abusive. It makes me angry because it adds to the abuse. It validates the stupid lies that target are told by the original abuser. It perpetuates and puts a seal of approval on the worst behaviors. It's the last shovel of dirt on the grave. Gee, thanks. Does it say Undertaker on your door? Decent does not seem to apply, so how about a little clarity… define what you call helping. And who. Who are you helping? Need another nail in your coffin? Got a hammer, too? Lovely. Please put it away. Help them find balance instead.
I'm wondering if you can be a codependent and still appear to be the leader in the relationship or even possess traits belonging to those with aspd or npd etc.
Hi Ross, that was really excellent presentation and please continue deeply into this research because I have discovered that NPD is one of the most distinctive personality disorders out there. All of the men who are victims of Narc Girlfriends sound like they are all talking about the SAME ex-girlfriend/wife as they all write about the traits they experienced in forums on the net like Shrink4Men, MenWhoAreAbused and don't miss the 14 part series here on youtube at the channel BeGood4000 called Narcissistic Personality Disorder he is talking about it from the victim of a Narc Girlfriend experience. Its just that that 14 part series is simply talking about my Ex exactly, EXACTLY EVERY PART AND EXAMPLE of abuse and phases and actions.
Next I need to work on ME.
you just explained most male and female relationships… women want to take care of their man, men want to be taken care of…
Joanna,
I am not sure that qualifies for a diagnosis…lol! I am glad you like and appreciate my videos. The book might be helpful also. Take care.
Ross Rosenberg
I am becomming dependant on these co dependant videos!
Excellent Video…On Narcissist ( Emotional Manipulators ) Controllers…Thank You.
QUETION:
Why old Colonial VICTIMS usually after a decades of struggle for independence again find themselves entangled in a bad deals with they Old Colonial masters… ???
I believe that a Narcissist are so charming and skilful in hypnotizing a person into a Relationship where S/He will start to act very much like Poky machine =IRREGULAR Schedule Reinforcements and by that S/He will start to create a form of Gambling Addiction. Very alternate behaviours, irregularity, On and OFF,+ intense emotional changes ups/downs and again etc. TACTICS.
By the time a VICTIM in a such ColoniSationship will encounter many different losses = a LIMBO of poverty With NOWHERE TO GO