Overt vs Covert Cheating Narcissists. There is a big difference! How To Recover From Trauma. How To Identify Manipulators, Liars, Fake Friends, Toxic People, …
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The Cheating Narcissist — Overt vs Covert
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Oh, how I wish this video was available 10 years ago! My ex covert was extremely sneaky, but he didn't know that because of growing up with Narc parents, I investigate and analyze EVERYTHING. The second I suspected he was going on dating sites, I'd create a fake one, and this is how I caught him multiple times. He definitely didn't want to be caught (covert). However, after I caught him and he weaseled out of it by claiming fear of commitment, etc…he knew that this would be a way of "punishing" me in the future. For instance if he caused some kind of drama or conflict (which all narcissists love to do), he'd punish me by going on a dating site, knowing I was looking for just that. Then, he'd claim that I had no reason to be mad, because we weren't speaking and were "broken up", even if the "breakup" lasted only a week. So, coverts do sometimes love to let you know what they're doing, but will find a way to validate their evildoings, by claiming you were "broken up" during that period. You're right, they will not cheat in an obvious way, but they will do it. And yes, they love to keep you guessing, wondering IF they are actually physically cheating. You rarely find proof of that, with a covert. Excellent video and thanks for clarifying for people that there ARE so many subtle differences between the different types of narcissists!
They're difficult to explain because they're twisted with a capital T whether they're low IQ or not o.O
I truly believe NarcPD is absotively, posolutely, demonic in nature, w out a doubt. i used to liken the actual NPD traits to a virus. most all of em', have a very specific range of "symptoms" that iz extremely similar, sometimes right down to the letter, the word, the comebacks mannerisms, excuses, it's maddening, an it's hard 4 me to trust my own judgement, i jst couldn't wrap my head around the fact that my ex wasn't, isn't, an won't ever be, the person I THOUGHT I knew!! God Bless you, ur vids give me strength and validate what I am feeling isn't in my head, etc. ;)
I truly believe NarcPD is absotively, posolutely, demonic in nature, w out a doubt. i used to liken the actual NPD traits to a virus. most all of em', have a very specific range of "symptoms" that iz extremely similar, sometimes right down to the letter, the word, the comebacks mannerisms, excuses, it's maddening, an it's hard 4 me to trust my own judgement, i jst couldn't wrap my head around the fact that my ex wasn't, isn't, an won't ever be, the person I THOUGHT I knew!! God Bless you, ur vids give me strength and validate what I am feeling isn't in my head, etc. ;)
all kinds of adds to sexy girls fb pages, then publicly thank them for the add, have a girl over and have her sit with him in our bedroom. when we are arguing and he is accusing me of cheating.
Can you do a video on the extensive story telling they can get you entangled in
The ex-Narc nightmare of mine always had a harem of babes (some hot, some not) on his phone; I've only encountered two and those were quite by accident. He'd go back and forth in his explanations: one time they are potential love interests (I always let him down) and the next time they were merely mom's of his kids friends (never had the schools, doctors, relatives, or dads numbers) or guys he knew that seemingly always used their girlfriends/daughters phones. Then there was all the damn porn. And when he worked, always overly familiar with at least one young lady. I never really felt his loyalty. Heck, he'd call out women's names in his dreams (later learned some of his sleep talking was done purposely). The only other clues of what type Narc he is, I never suspected what a creep he would turn out to be… thought I'd met Mr. Wonderful.
anyone who has dealt with someone like this isn't thinking, "what!?!"
I'm sitting here shaking my head and having ah ha moments…
Spot on.One thing that drove me nuts about my ex narc, was that even though he dumped me and moved the skank into our home, he wanted to keep in touch with me! Yuck! He would call me on our anniversary and such. I told him I was involved with someone else and to stop calling and writing. How sick is that? Just can't get enough supply or what?
This is totally true!
very helpful thank you. My ex left her bra outside at an ex bfs house, hanging from a car aerial. Her car was parked there overnight and she was drinking. She always claimed it wasn't her bra although it was without a doubt hers. When I confronted her she claimed I imagined the bra, with a smirk…but I burnt it in my garden. Beware of the covert cheating narcissist…to this day it still messes with my head. Thank you for your video
man, I've delt with both. they gaslighted the hell out of me and they really get off on it too.
My narc was a covert who didn't cheat but would string other women along behind my back because he wanted to use connections towards his career.. He would flirt and if he didn't get what he wanted from them for his career he would ignore them leaving them hurt and confused, I didn't know until a woman came up in a club we were in and slapped his face… And when a fan on his you tube video left a comment about MY boyfriend saying he uses abuses then dumps you… He explained to me that these women were psycho and delusional… No… They were not…they were used and hurt, the sad part was I believed him, because "he was such a dreamboat" ha! I realized what he was and am healing, the apathy for him has begun…Nancy Sinatra "These Boots are made for walking" that songs brings me comfort and makes me laugh
You know you're in the healing process when you wish they would cheat and run away with the tramp they slept with
Yep, the mind fucking routines. That is the one part I never understand from those sick bastards, that they do these mind games and leave the victim to stew in their own thoughts. Allowing the victims thoughts to fuck them up internally, destroying the best of these people. Then the plausible deniability. As your other video, an educated empath. There are times when you cannot just walk away, not when their are children and shared assets. Throw in a high level of entitlement and you have a juicy victim for the meat grinder.
Still like the analogy of thinking of your life as your house, you will not just let anybody in who knocks on the door. So we need to be with the people who come into our lives, the best response is to not answer the door.
Coverts are way worse…sneaky, sadistic and disgusting!! Their mind games are mind blowing, but of course overt narcs are easy to spot.
on point
What a beatiful soul you are! Your beauty is impressive to me! Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts with us.
very good description of the mental games ,,,the best thing to do is make a plan to leave & become emotionally uninvolved w/ the whole game …once the narc's game is exposed and divorce is the only way out ….
Hiya Sacha. It is important to KNOW that you only ever see the tip of the iceberg with a N 'partner'. As you say they leave 'crumbs of evidence' as a mindfuck technique to excite themselves. Like hotel cards lying around. (Been there :)) I think the N types actually fluctuate between overt and covert and that these terms are pretty junky and futile. What counts is the behavior and actions of people ; does it suit you, does it feel hurtful and disrespectful etc ? If so, get out of the relationship. Review your OWN belief systems and honor yourself. Sometimes we hold on to a relationship for the wrong reasons. But they are masters at tieing people into relationships in time, specifically by fluctuating behavior. Targets have to know how deeply damaging psychologically these types of people's behavior can be it really can wreck your life in every way, and this seems to be the goal that the N types are actually cultivating actively. The more storm damage they cause , the more they see their power. And KNOW that the longer the relationship, the more lies, cheating, deception, thieving, and mindfuckery you will be subject to. And that years after the grand finale, you will still be undoing the knots and mess they leave behind. The rusty old hooks will still spike you, often at unexpected moments, the triggers will haunt you …. you mention self praise in one of your vids, yes … and I would add, self care, self respect ….our validation can only ultimately come from within ourselves and then we can feel solid again, whole. Alignment with our own conscience, outside of any 'moral' judgement.
Thanks for bringin that up Sacha, my narc would leave beard hairs in her bathroom sink that obviously were not mine or a males t- shirt on the floor. Even once found a pair of punk fur covered hancuffs by her bed! Unbelievable! For a year and a half not once did i run into this " imaginary lover". They truly are sick in the melon!
Wow! I just realized through the info in this video that I went from dating an overt to dating a covert…which I believe would mean that I have gone from bad to worse. Its been about six months now that I have gotten the covert out of my life and have not taken any of his calls (which are mostly now from false/random made up google numbers thinking I will stupidly answer) I really appreciate videos like yours' as I am trying to educate myself on this behavior to help myself to not fall into another one of these very toxic relationships…so thank you for your videos on this subject. :-)
Yes, covert narcs are disgusting triangulating pieces of dirt.. he did just that alluding to other women making me jealous but probably didn't do anything as he was celibate, but trying to make me jealous.. and when I asserted myself and said I don't like this, he eventually used my reactions as evidence that I was not healthy and the toxic one..
I thought my narc wife was cheating and I accused her of it. But of course she denied it. Well, I starting going through her things and found lingerie in her dresser draw. When I called her out on it, she said her mother gave it to her. Really? well how come it was never shown to me, worn for me or even spoken about. What kind of sick mother would give their daughter lingerie. This is how sick these Narcissist are and how much they lie.
This is exactly the situation I find myself in one year after my covert narcissist discarded me. She accused me of and threatened an affair. She told me how every man ever in our presence wanted her or how he was her type no matter the age or appearance. She would have an ex, who I didn't know was married when they were together, clean the driveway when I was out of town. I found her going on a dating sight behind my back but any time I ever had suspicions I would feel relieved to catch her doing nothing wrong. She would always have sex with me before I would go out of town and say "I want to make sure you come back to me. " She would meet me at the door to have sex with me when I got home, scantily clad as she always was. Sometimes she would say, "it's no one's business what goes on in people's bedrooms" and it gave me a bad feeling. One time I really felt like it seemed someone had been there just before me. I felt sure of it except that I wouldn't question her loyalty. I always counted on the neighbors to tell me if something was up. She was a teacher and her image meant everything. Now it's all just so crazy and I wish I could stop thinking about it. I keep trying to remember some clue that would make it undeniable because I don't know if it was gaslight or real. When I saw no empathy in her face it was much easier to believe it was reaI, I don't know why it matters.
Mine is a covert.. Thank you for your post..
It's just a laugh riot around here!
My ''ex'' never was my ex. That's why she never cheated and cheats!
She just played the monogamy role and teased me with it.
MIL before son and I were married …… use to send ( can't prove it ) cards to her son and they were signed, Your secret admirer. Now. This went on maybe a month or so? One evening while visiting him at his parents home, she promptly brought him his mail. He opens them and we both read them, as at that point we were together maybe a year or so, maybe more. So…… MIL is sitting across from us and it dawns on me….. like a bulb went off…. and I said ..umm I don't think these cards are from a Secret admirer, and looked up at MIL. The cards stopped coming. Yes. I have untold amounts of stories. Quite sadistic, some of them. Trust your intuition, even if you cannot or have no proof. ps. while sadistic, low level intelligence. I am not impressed with IQ, show me your EQ. Any man or woman, grown, messing with others like this, weather you ever know or not, have shown themselves to be quite immature and it's time to move on, or go low contact. Trust is the building block too any relationship.
Wow…u'r spot on again…and u are sooo brave.
My wife would go out to lunch with guys she used to work with, come home reeking of mens cologne. When I asked her about it, it was from a hug. On business trips, shed stay out until 2 am, even though we never led that life at home. I asked why she felt the need to do that and she declared that I was unsupportive of her career. It was made my problem that these things were being brought to light. My brother called me naive. I fear he was right. I was discarded in 2014 just as soon as I started standing up for myself.
This just blew my mind.
What about the type of person who succesfully raises a happy family and sees prostitutes on the side. They dont gas light the partner and are extremely careful and discreet…are they narcs? Covert or overt?
Hi Sacha!…WOW! You are super SMART!!…I feel so RELIEVED that I found you this morning!…after listening to 100's of other 'specialist' on the subject (Sam Valkin, Richard Grannon, Ramono are other good ones)! I'm EXCITED bc on my only day off, I will be sitting here watching all of your other video's. This is the FIRST time that I have heard: ANYone say that the covert N. leaves a 'trail' as if he cheated. If you want to hear a REALLY interesting story, I'll look for you on FB. A Narc. that I know got his entire reputation destroyed (bless his heart) b/c he left 'crum's' of not being 'faithful' to his lover that was an educated Empath! (both are married)…THANK YOU for taking your time out to share your knowledge. And THANK YOU for speaking clearly and slowly into the camera! ;)) LOL!….I hope we become friends!
Wow sis!!! you hit it on target..as you mentioned the covert narc will make it seem as though they are cheating but in fact will just use triangulation to drive you crazy.I experienced this.The flying monkey thought he was going to leave me but instead he used her to make me jealous then discarded her when he realized the triangulation was nolonger affecting me.I approached him one day,looked him straight in the eyes and said "I know what you are and how you get pleasure from playing mind games".I told him that now that I am aware of who I am dealing with to bring it…lmao!!! they are such cowards.The narc became enraged like a wild beast but I stood my ground.I know shame is his kryptonite.I went in for the kill.When I was finished the narc went to bed and laid in a fetal position for 3 days.No contact was not an option so I had to engage as you mentioned.I love your videos.They have empowered me to take on my narcissist.Everytime he tried something I shamed him immediately.He mentioned that he can't be around me anymore because it's too much pressure.I told him.."mission accomplished"..Lmao!!!
You're are awesome!
My ex husband narc left his pants near the door and was in the shower when I came from work, which wouldn't be a big deal except he always showered broke bed and changed in our walk in closet. He will deny it until his death that nothing happened. He talked about the same girl from work as if he was "high" on her supply. He even told me how sad he was that she was transferred to a different company. I knew on my gut but didn't have the resources or inner strength to get out. I showed up early to pick him up from work and saw they were the only two left. He accused me of being untrustworthy. I think some women get pleasure from cheating with a charming "desirable" man bc it makes them feel special that he'd cheat on his spouse for her…He left Internet history on his work lap top to hidden accounts. He just didn't care bc he cannot experience the burden and pain of infidelity/betrayal. I still have nightmares and it's been 3 years since the divorce.
beautifully expressed about covert narcs who never cheat but hint, gaslight and triangulate. Pure sadism and control. It happens so much. Also, why going assertive never works for the target, it may even give the sadists more supply. if that makes sense! thanks for all of your good work. <3
the narcissist had on his phone numbers from all kinds of woman the name everything he even told my son friend Danny that this Young girl he was talking to he what him to meet her she is 21 the narcissist help her so I got tireder of him so I left him finally thanks !!
ironically enough: 2 yrs in, after she had destroyed/annihilated a romantic weekend getaway…i blurted the N word at her..not as an insult but as a descriptive of my dis- believe that she turned the weekend into a torture-trip. I said-that's it !were leaving now.!
Drove 4 hrs in the middle of the night..-while she raged and told me she'd been having an affair while I was away on work (days later to be withdrawn)..I kept it together-dropped her of….needless to say broke up with her (again).. I'm not trying to wave a victim flag..just relating to how you've nailed the stereotypes..cheers!
iam glad I left him he's not good looking at all but he's nose how to charm women hes got away with it ive seen everything his room is never clean he I've noticed how he acts like a kid though everything I left kick his ass knocked him down in front of ppl he didn't like that but he likes going out to his game shopping for himself wears nothing but different jerseys he would eat the same foods he told my son he was going to change me into a slut my son told him have fun trying my mom doesn't dress like that I've seen what kind of woman he gets he loves attention he thinks he's all that I told him iam not fighting over him he's not Worth it lol !!!
well I went through that with him he told his friends about the girls he seen on the train he when we were together he would disrespect me by looking at other women young n a little older he kept doing this all the time it got to the point were I left him twice he use my son to call me told him what does he what he said he what to see want I was doing for the last time I kick his ass knocked him down nobody makes a fool out of any woman !!!
I dealt with one of those fools! He saw me talking to someone and later told me that he didn't know the guy but warned me to stay away from him. Turns out I found the guy's number programmed into his phone! Found out later he had 'cheated' with him yet at first claimed it was YEARS ago..only to find later it was a recent thing and he was bitter because after their one encounter the other guy wanted NOTHING to do with him and he was jealous that the guy was talking to me. He gave himself away by making such a stink about me talking to this person he doesn't know (yet has his name & # in his phone). The excuse for that was "Oh I have his number for my roommate who doesn't have a phone. RIDICULOUS!