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How Do I Effectively Co-Parent With a Narcissist? Episode 7 of the “Ask a Question” Show
My brother is going through this exact same situation and I'm glad that you made this video. Frivolous court cases, using "flying monkeys" to sabotage his reputation and all of his relationships, baiting him into arguments and then using them later in court as evidence and acting as the victim, lying, double-standards, using the child as a way to attack him by manipulative, financial leverage, subtle things without being neglectful or abusive toward the child, herself, yet. Sadly, my brother isn't the smartest person and is very easily baited. It seems hopeless and it's difficult not to just say "I guess that's the way it is. He's screwed."
just separated from my son's narsassist and I found this really helpful x
This is why I asked is it okay just to want their genetics and none thing more from them on your grey rocking videos, kind of like a sperm donor or an egg donor, since they lack the ability to build a real emotional connection?
Thanks for your excellent video and your work in general, Dana – it helps! Parenting with narcs is hell and the damage on children profound. I don't know how one can protect against it since they will turn your children against you and try to corrupt them into being narcs or borderlines. You can see the damage on Escape From Narcissism's channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2V6oWchisqnPOzddUTm4Ag/videos . I think my kids have been damaged for life :(. Even worse is realising we are alone and society, social and educational services, etc are completely blind to this abuse being carried out in so many homes in secret 🙁 🙁 .
An additional problem is that in the UK in 9/10 of cases the custody goes to the mother, who will be the narc in –50% of the cases of narc abuse (maybe more – I suspect male narcs get married less often). Narc parent gets the kids = negative kids' welfare. Courts are currently blind to this. Also, mothers are the primary influence in a child's upbringing, for sons and daughters. It's perhaps for this reason that the gender specific books, websites and FB pages I've found on healing from narc abuse are about mothers (and often their daughters – sons don't talk as much I guess). This is more deeply hidden still since people don't want to see that the sacred role of motherhood can be abused. In Scandinavia they have a default joint co-parenting divorce settlement, where both parents parent 50-50, which seems ahead of the anglo-saxon system.
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I copied this question and my answer from your channel comments.
"One more thing Dana- what is splitting? My daughter has been doing this since I left the Narc parent. Her therapist told me she was splitting,( as if I understand the lingo )but did not define it for me in terms of how it relates to my daughter and the Narc father and myself. At times I feel her channeling his words and phrases verbatim, as if she were possessed by him. I got rid of him and now I have to hear it through my child. I know it is him pulling the strings in the back ground. Should I use the gray stoning tactic with my daughter? I feel bad enough that everything she believed was real and true came undone before her eyes. I feel for the children in thee situations with all of us out there with kids. It;s a real problem co -parenting with these weirdos. They love the Cat and Mouse game and will hurt their own kids in order to keep it going."
My answer:
"Perhaps I can try and answer. Splitting is black and white thinking and is a common consequence of narcissistic abuse. It’s a component of parental alienation, when the narc turns a child against the other parent by projecting emotional toxicity onto them and coaching the child to think that parent is all bad (and that they are correspondingly all good). The narc maybe reliving trauma from their own childhood, splitting their bad parent into good and bad and projecting the bad onto the spouse. The effect of this emotional coaching is to ‘infect' the child with the narc’s toxic mentality and this is why you experience your daughter channeling or being possessed by him. Dr Childress is an expert on parental alienation and recommends separating the child from the narc for at least a week and de-programming them (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezBJ3954mKw). I don’t really know if this is enough. Co-parenting with narcs is a nightmare, probably impossible. My kids have been damaged, one into co-dependency people pleaser and the other into being a narc (who has splitting and recently disowned me as the all bad parent). If Dana doesn’t mind, I’ve found this lady helpful on the topic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=venBRpMEDt0 . Also, Escape From Narcissism recounts her self development out of being a young person heading towards narcissism after narc abuse https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYmppHk8Py8 "
You should to hearing The XX – Angels, in relation to narcissism.
Things seem to be getting worse with my psychopath ex husband/ the father of my kids, he knows he no longer has the same effects he once had over me, before i knew what he is and what he is about, Not going to lie he starting to scare me, like in the sense i don't feel safe and he is capable of anything. i can sense the desperation he has, Today he came by to get the kids and one thing that used to set me off was when he would tell me he was going to take me to court to get custody, I know there is no justification and clearly him calling me unstable is far from the truth, you can clearly see in our texts and emails that he is the one cussing and threatening and being confrontational.
Please if anyone can help or give any advise to try to not provoke him more then i already have since he knows he no longer has the power, it would be very much appreciated.
Oh it was all going so well, your video's have really been helping, but the narc popped his head back up after 10months of no contact, sending me an e-mail all of a sudden wanting to pay child support, even though they have been chasing him for the last 2 years, he has never opted to contribute financially. But this e-mail requires me to respond and ask questions, like how much, when will you start paying, here are my bank details, will you be paying you arrears too? Is now the time for gray rock, how on earth do I do that? :'(
Answer: "You don't". Been there, (tried to) do that, it is a complete waste of breath and energy. The children will be better behaved than the narcissistic parent.
Agree with everything said here. If I may also add: conceal your true feelings, fears and desires from a narcissist. If you have to trade in a smaller vulnerability (or create a fake one) to distract from the real weakness, do it.
I realised it while watching two toddlers play one day. Baby1 grabbed a toy and was enjoying it, which made baby2 very interested in that toy as well, so it yanked it out of baby's1 hands. Baby1 almost cried, but then it noticed another toy, began playing with it and having as much fun with it as with the previous one. Baby2 repeated its behaviour (narcissists can't help themselves either)…at which point I noticed baby1 secretly went back to playing with the original toy, this time being a bit more discreet about it.
Needless to say, narcissists never grow up in this respect, they only get more vicious about it. My husband's ex "yanked" the kids out from us when she noticed we're all having too much fun. Summer break was coming and she started saying she might leave town with the kids to spend it with her friends. Husband's response was basically: "Well that sucks but apparently it's a push I needed to finally go on a honeymoon. Have fun!". Lo and behold, the kids spent the entire break with us (even a couple of school days) while she went on a trip with her boyfriend. She doesn't know we organised the honeymoon for after the summer break and why should she? What matters is us knowing that she uses every opportunity to get rid of the kids (hence her visiting friends=babysitters).
As long as she thinks she's winning, we're winning, too. Not only because we get our way, but mainly because she interrogates and indoctrinates the kids less when we wave another "toy" in her face. 4 years of dealing with this woman, trying literally everything, and this is our survival skill number 1. Level: toddler. How sad is that?
You can co-parent with a parent. Someone who treats their kids like pawns is not a parent.
I liked how you mentioned positive actions we can take to help the younger children cope with the situation. Do you have any experience/ideas/ helpful tips for an adult child of a narcissist who is just realizing they have been living under the thumb of a parent with multiple characteristics of narcissist/ cluster B personality types.
More along the lines of my eyes have been opened- where do we go from here?
Yes Dana …done all that …i just want to say the system sucks …it's nothing really they do for you and your child …you ended doing most of the parenting cause they cancel last minute, bring them earlier, oops lost jobs and don't pay child support for awhile, etc the list is ended …in one word they ruin your life and in the top of this they have money and lawyers …well not much you can do …oh but when you go to court the are the VICTIMS !!! They know the system well to get away with their crimes…yes I'm up set…it has been passed 10 years of my life …almost 6 just to diverse him…what a waist of life !!!
Hi I have a question, I just now at 40 know why my life has been so fucked up. I have no famil yI am not married everyone I meet seems to be a narcissist or I make good people try to use me…I am so lonely that I don't want to go on if I don't find some community and people to love and love me. I am attractive, very smart, funny nice dedicated loyal but I cant seem to stand up for my self I cannot seem to find any other people in real life to be close with .Please help. I cant stand this loneliness'
Thank You, Thank You :)
Jus wanna say hey…an thank you for those great suggestions.
A narcissistic parent is certainly not the type of mother/father that sets a good example for his/her kids, nor can such a parent provide a stable, loving environment for a youngster's critical, formative years. Anticipating the actions of a narcissistic ex in front of the kids means also being aware of how he/she "pushes your buttons," not allowing the narc to suck you into a fight and knowing a little something about your ex-narc's Achilles' heel. Going grey rock is a must. As you've said, it's up to the non-narcissistic parent to provide the stable home environment as well as love, emotional and psychological support for the kid(s), and to not talk trash about the narcissistic ex (even though he/she deserves it). As kids get older, they will eventually see through all of this.
You can take my word for it…You Don't is the best answer. Its important to remember that the child is just another tool in the predator's toolbox to be used as needed. I've been fortunate in that my ex has used our son as a means to control me but as a result, I've been able to be with him as often as I've wanted to. Besides, a refusal to allow me visitation would certainly tarnish that Parent of the Year image…right? Sometimes, not often, a predator's manipulations back-fire lololol :)