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Raging Narcissist: Merely Pissed-off?
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Sam, first, thank you for giving words to what was my experience with someone who has ASPD/NPD. This person has been out of my life now for almost 3 months. There were several occasions where I had to call the police, and all times he was arrested and/or institutionalized (jail or state psychiatric hospital). I mistakenly allowed him back in my life after the worst of the attacks and all times when I had to call 911. I feel like I should report to the police the physical and sexual attacks that followed (the most recent being 3 months ago when I finally put my foot down and blocked him out of my life), but I haven't done so as of yet because I'm scared it will make matters worse. He was stalking me up until a couple of weeks ago and might still be doing so, but if he is, I don't know about it as of this time. In your experience, will reporting sexual abuse, domestic violence, etc. and getting an order of protection only make him more likely to attack me further?
Can you say any more about this phenomenon that presents as anger? Also, has there ever been any type of breakthrough with a known narcissist in a clinical setting or otherwise? I mean tapping away at their defense mechanisms until reaching a core self or an inner wounded child or something or that nature.
Hello Sam. What about the Psychopaths rage? Thank you for your videos.
Is there a treatment for narcissism? Is it possible that alcoholics or ACOA's are narcissists only when they use?
Your videos are an amazing gift. Really, really helpful, thank you so much.
The best line "they rage and act like lunatics". So true.
like two year olds having temper tantrum
Wow!! This video is so good for me. My last lover was a stark raving narcissist and your videos are super helpful.
Narcissists are people too.
Thank you. This is very profound and answers so many questions.
They fly into rages because you threaten their own narratives of greatness and rigid self-regarding egos. It's funny / peculiar how they demand niceness from you, but are not nice to you. If you call them on their abuse, they will take revenge.
Sir you should be an expert on chain murder and global power!
I love the comment about garden variety anger. over $1.50 my man punched me in the head 5 x. when I cried cause I almost lost consciousness. he said" should've given me the $1.50." wow
I cut off resources and kicked my narcissistic man out. what followed was hell. sabotaged me hit me put me down harassed, stalked and terrorized me for 4 weeks. he's now in jail – felony. will he get better or plan more against me? sure he blames me for being in jail. love to see him in counceling when he gets out.
Then isn't it possible that this narcism could be "developed" by constant bullying, or mobbing, even as an adult?
So what happens when you don't react to their rage, or they don't get the reaction they want out of you?
Are you sure the narcissist only rages at insignificant people? The narcissist I was married used to rage at me on a regular basis–always in private, never around other people. I have a friend who is experiencing the same thing. Second question: I am having a hard time convincing this friend he is truly dealing with a narcissist. I have been through all the manipulations on a case by case basis and nailed every single trait in his spouse. I even showed him how his upbringing suited him to be chosen by her as a victim. Still more denial. Do you know any way to break through that in a codependent?
I am sure the Narcasist thinks that his anger is controllable by him, and it is the only thing that gives him power. Like you say anger impedes thought but maybe the Narcasist does not want to think and therefore wants to be angry. This would explain the sudo personality and anger.
Sam, does a Narc respond with rage or indifference when a supply source imposes no contact (blocks emails, social media, texts)?
I wanted to share about "MTHFR" gene mutation. My narcissist spouse had DNA swab done. The mutation "C667T" was found. "Deplin" and antidepressant prescribed has worked wonders. More discussion on this topic appreciated .
thanks for these videos, i am so confused and anxious, my mom says its my fault she didn't put up a Christmas tree, and that it was my fault, my brother says mom is my responsibility, my mom doesn't open her mail, and i cant get her to open her mail, i feel its my responsibility, that she opens her mail, i feel really scared and anxious
I always wonder why my N husband looked angry most of the time although he had never expressed it.
There was only facial expression on him. He had never yelled or acted violence.. always calm and seemed to be in control in every situation.He looked either unhappy or elated(kinda like when a little kid got a new toy on Christmas day..very odd and hard to explain) There was nothing in between. Sometimes he looked dissociated almost like his mind went somewhere.
Looking back into the relationship, I now know why I felt so lonely. Because he had never been there with me.
so true, exactly how my ex has been and treated me for several years… I don't feel I will ever be recovered of those years
Please answer this, why do NARC''S Start what they can't finish, saying good night to Narc, won't Say good night back (IGNORED ME)I did that twice, Then!!!! No more good nights!!!! , Now!!! Narc is VERY ANGRY!!! WON'T say hello!! I let the person in charge know, because NARC WILL LIE ON ME!!! NO ONE UNDERSTANDS…. THIS IS A NARC…. SPOTTED NARC RIGHT AWAY NO CONTROL HERE
Sam, I want to thank you for these videos, they're brilliant (hey, no supply, here, just a fact). They do so much to help the Narcissists who want to be helped and the myriad, hapless souls, including myself, who have been involved with them. They do tend to toughen us up and force us to – finally – develop insight about our own role in that crazy relationship. I was lucky, he was "only" verbally abusive and not especially inclined to exploit. All the other criteria were there, though. It took a couple of years after I left him for this to dawn on me: he wasn't to blame, he was just doing what he does. But, there was something wrong with me for taking it.
To all of you who are entangled in or still recovering from a relationship with a Narcissist, I highly recommend what I came to call my Echo therapy. You may discover you were a little nuts before Narcissus got there. : )
It took a long, long time for me to learn that my anger and rage is directed at myself. I never thought of it this way until I watched this video. I have been wasting a lot of my life and my time. Thank you, Sam Vaknin. I watch your videos every day. I have learned more from you in just a couple of months than I have learned from anyone else and from working on my own put together. And this particular video is one of my favorites! Yes, I am that bottomless pit of anger and rage. But no more. Things are starting to change around here! I have seen the enemy, and he is I. Grateful. Thank you!
Are narcissists the same as borderlines?
Another analogy is a tortoise; it has a hard shell; it was formed throughout it's life for protection. But., if the shell was soft and vulnerable when it was it it's formative stage, (as a fontanelle on a baby) the shell was penetrated; warped; and the signals were distorted. So, the "shell" of the tortoise became a weapon rather than a defense mechanism, and life became a war rather than an experience.
Emotions are teaching instruments that are necessary to learn anything. A true narc has no feelings, and is typically emotionally retarded, and therefore cannot learn or sustain knowledge other than what is memorized. This must be a terrible plight for the narcissist, because after years and years and many relationships that are now tattered in the wind the narc must know that his indifference has truly contributed to the plight he his in, but there is nothing he can do. Typically, emotions trigger memorized behaviors, so if the narcissist has no feelings that is why situations repeatedly present themselves, and although the narc may know how to deal with it, unless he, himself is "triggered" nothing will become of learned behaviors either. That is why people leave them and protect themselves from more pain. Otherwise, if the narc is not triggered by a past emotion/criticism, there is no reaction at all.
Living with a narcissist is a problem that is unsolvable. If you do not need any emotional connection, and can survive, that is one part of it, and that is up to you. If you are responsible and want things in order, the narcissist will become agitated if any shortcomings are addressed. If you need to accomplish a goal, and it takes two, the narcissist will automatically assume that you need to deal with the issue alone, and if you show any irritation at the lack of interest on the narcissist's part it will bring out rage; not that you had an type of unrealistic expectation from the narc, but any slighting or questioning will result in the end goal being postponed while the narcissist rages over feeling of being inferior, although inferiority never entered the picture. It is a dog chasing it's tail. Nothing will ever become of it. It is doomed from the beginning. My question is this: If the narc has no feelings then why do they react with such vigor and anger if expected to "be there" for someone; why is that not also ignored like everything else? They react to criticism with emotion, but usually nothing else. Why?
A narcissist can receive, but cannot give.
Was married to an extreme narcissist for 13 years. For many years it was an awful experience always trying to please her and never being good enough. She was pretty crazy, always flying into rages and using them to intimidate me. She would even talk in her sleep and curse at me (in her sleep) on a regular basis, I've never heard or seen anything like this. I eventually realized that I had value as a human being and left her after speaking to a couple of psychologists about her. Best thing I've ever done for myself. The divorce was awful; the first trial was tough but the second trial was much better because I understood what she was. One more trial to go next month and I'll final put a stop to some of the things shes been doing to me over the years (it's been almost six years since I left her). I know it'll never be over until our two kids are done with college but I've figured out how to handle the situation without too much impact on me. I wish I had known better when I met her but on the other hand I've got two good boys and met a wonderful woman because of this. I've been in a solid relationship for the past five years as well and now know what it's like to be loved by someone that's healthy. Life is good and I refuse to let a narcissist deny my happiness. If you're married or in a relationship with one just get out – it's that simple. Eventually you'll get to the "other side" as I have
I work with a guy who's narcissist. I swear to god that I'm afraid of my safety, and the safety of others. Because I've seen him pissed, and he's always pissed. Plus watching his behavior he seem's unstable. Not to mention I heard from my other co-workers that security had to intervene to stop him from having another fight, yes I said another fight. It happened twice. It could have been just an agruement, but thats besides the point. Best thing is to stay away from him.
my sister is bpd, histrionic, nillons b, npd, my oldest brother is a sociopath, other brother was schizophrenic, mother was slightly autistic, npd but nice npd, dad was ptsd sociopath, sister made my life hell, married a 'strong' psychopath to protect me from the violence of my sister, a jealous, two-faced, rotten person, hated me from birth 'because you are pretty i am am ugly, that's why mum loves you' – terrible liar, used to smash plates and slam doors in private,extreme hypocrite, liked to goad my brother into hitting her so she could whine about it
Thank you for explaining the differences between garden variety anger/rage and narcissistic anger/rage. I feel I understand these better now as a result.
No I really hate lambos.
this video, should be watched by anyone who has ever come across such a foul creature as Dr Vaknin so very precisely describes. Whether in actuality or through the virtual realm-if one comes across such dishonourable predators-who may fully believe, they are infallible – be swift to leave them behind in the company of their worst enemy: THEY THEMSELVES.
the odious creature, whom i trusted was a good person, is only, thanks be-no more than a virtual predator. i tremble at the thought of ever have had met him in actuality.
that i have decided to accept absolutely no more cowardly behaviour from him-was because he went as far, as trying to offend friends i have here, like and respect. and that-i do not allow. i tolerated a little–my mistake! However, my father is a good and honourable man-the obvious opposite of what this "man" IS AND REPRESENTS. had i not had a father as mine is-i may have been seriously vulnerable to that internet predator. i am happy that predator has landed where he belongs-which is: in the deceptive hold of his own hands…though not forever, i am afraid–for he must continue to hunt for more victims, toward whom he can project his eternal state of misery onto a next.
so, ladies, be careful, that monstrosity is still out there, AND A-HUNTING! BEWARE!!!
If it's possible, I would much appreciate your advice on something Sam Vaknin, I will attempt to send you a message on facebook if I can. This video was insightfull too
I would also add or throw this one out there. Scientists have now found that there are some faulty genes that can occur that code for faulty receptor cites for oxytocin. In some autistic patients they have found this and are experimenting with raising oxytocin levels to compensate for this faulty gene with positive results to ameliorate certain behaviors related to an apparent lack of empathy. I wonder if in the case of more what I would call genetic "sociopathic Narcissists" whether artificially raising the levels of oxytocin would balance out or turn off that constant flow of subterranean rage that the narcissist seems to carry around with them?
The reason why I posit the idea of a "genetic" Sociopathic Narcissist is that there is a particular look in the eyes that starts at an early age and continues through adult hood. Photographs of my x-wife from the age of 5 onwards seem to show that. There is a sort of parallel vergence of the eyes but it is different from Autistic spectrum patients that might also have a more parallel vergence. The "look" is rather unnerving… that you get from the sociopathic narcissist. Hard to explain…. It's more like a malevolent doll… That's the best I can do to explain. It's spooky.
That was pretty profound and spot on.
With my sociopathic Narc X-wife… there was always this sense (that I can only describe in geologic terms) of an underground/subterranean lava flow. These exist in the real world. Always this underground current of flowing magma/rage… and it is a unique form of pervasive rage (that they draw upon to gas light or induce the walking on eggshells thing in others around them). I think its more like where persistent and extreme irritation meets a smoldering and festering type of anger that also contains a persistent level of eternal (and internal) spite or spitefulness. So the narcissist seems to have the river Styx running through their "soul" and from whatever minor external stimulus that may be, has the capability to disturb or perturb this constant flow of magma into major or minor vituperative eruptions.
I think what Sam sets out as being particularly useful here is that he posits the idea that this state of narcissistic "anger" permanently blocks the empathy channel just in the same way a non pathological person would if they were also (temporarily) angry. I think that is a really valuable insight here!
That really explains a lot… and my X-wife did cite her anger/depression being the core problem of her behavior. Is it really the case that the Narcissist is for ever in a defensive posture always striking out as everyone beyond a certain radius of the inner circle must be an enemy? You get from the narcissist this sense of self justified spite.. i.e. they are being spiteful as they are the MOST damaged victim somehow.
So the question here is IF you can take care of the undercurrent of powerful broad and internal anger then does the narcissist become more empathic? And hence becomes more benign?
How do Malignant Narcissists fare on the drug ecstasy?
There's a massive difference between a general stalker and being pissed off with trying to get a paranoid sulky PA malicious narc who never faces or responds to you, to come clean on the extent of their maliciousness and apologise for spreading lies about you- or even revealing why they did.
I'm sure that to a paranoid sulky PA malicious narc (who imagines slights and rejections against them then discards the person without any discussion whatsoever) however, that the two are the same, so that they don't have to admit that their behaviour and views were completely wrong.
They can't ever face the person or respond to any communication attempts about it, much less explain themselves if their behaviour was in fact, amazingly justified.
Running away, hiding, ignoring, sulking, being passive-aggressive and running the person down behind their back are not the behaviours of a well-adjusted adult if they think their initial behaviour was justified.
If your malicious behaviour was justified, you'd easily stand up calmly and justify it.
It's mind-boggling then, that they cannot understand how and why you are pissed off at them, and have every damn right to be.
They think that just because they discarded you and found other sources of attention, that what they did somehow ceases to exist, and that doing this is perfectly ok.
The malicious behaviour is still unresolved and undiscussed.
The more ruthless, inconsiderate and detached they are from what they did, naturally, the angrier you justifiably get- you go from trying to resolve the initial maliciousness they will not acknowledge, to additionally, having to resolve the callous indifferent childish silent treatment as well.
Good Luck getting them to understand something so incredibly simple.
They try to show their circle that you're crazy, when really, it's the paranoid, sulky PA malicious narc who is crazy, by doing what they did.
If you're pissed off at a sulky, PA malicious narc who ran and hid and never faces up to what he does by deliberately avoiding you in any childish way he can think of, you have every right to be pissed off.
They are crazy manipulative cowards who discard people at will- they are users.
They have no conscience, and zero ability to feel bad about what they do- much less revise the bizzare way they see things.
first my narcissistic man practically killed me, then when he went to jail, his narcissistic mother started stalking me! She has called cps, pressed charges on me for harassment, then tricked me into thinking she had dropped the charges, then 5 months later, I had a bench warrant for it, so she called the police and said I had a bench warrant and false accusations to the dog law officer so that they would come to my house, I was sent to jail, then she called cps to tell them I was in jail… she is going nuts crazy wacko!
Goes completely off!! It does not matter who sees him, or hears him..or where he is, when he rages…he looses it completely!! He really loved to 'go off" on me if any men were around..he wanted to show case his "authority"..abuse is what it was, I left him!
I'd be interested in an examination of how people become narcissistic as a result of mind control/trauma based mind control. We see selfishness and lack of empathy in every walk of society. Have we all fallen under the spell of mind control? If a person develops empathy, not focusing on self and instead caring for other human beings, then can they be seen as a true narcissist? Here are some of my thoughts on this topic.
It seems that a lack of empathy is what marks a narcissist. If the person resists the training (in all the various forms of mind control presently at work) and develops a sense of other people's pain, then the methods to create an alter personality with total lack of human compassion, have failed.
Could you please give much commentary on how a Narcissist is created in efforts to control others (mind control), or look into it? It must come from childhood experiences. You stated that it is a form of PTSd. PTSd (or what I call a syndrome) is not a new emotional disorder and it seems that it has been used as a method of control since it was first studied in psychological circles. Shell shock was the name of it prior to this.
IMO "Empathy" destroys this cycle in a narcissist.
In PTSd, that is what causes the misfiring toward a mood disturbance, the attacker (soldier)
can feel the pain of their victim and cannot forget it…"war" and all things that feel, smell, or sound like war become a "trigger" for emotional disturbances.
It would seem, then that If empathy is injected into this training (in childhood), it offsets the total self absorption that is going on. PTSd that results from war experiences is different than induced PTSd in childhood. It would seem that getting the narcissist to feel the pain of the person they are harming is something that may help them pull themselves out of this pit of self absorption. If the narcissist's "target" (better than victim) empathizes with the pain that is driving him/her to this, they may have found a safe place to just be who they are Be who they are, not based on someone they are with perfectly mirroring that to the world, but on being who they are because it is who they are. Are we becoming afraid to be real, who we are? What is driving us to that fear?
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excellent. Thank you for this enlightening information.
this sounds like peter schiff
SO awesome that you have not followed in their footsteps!